Carrying a firearm

Nope the Netherlands don't but the rest off the world have even fare more people. And still iff you compare that to America....

In Belgium it's worse than in the Netherlands.

In Belgium students get stabbed by others in their throat because of not giving information of a girl.

And we have people been killed for an iPod.

Belizaire the Black wrote:

Possibly.

Well it seems we agree with that.

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So, who's judging now?

For I'm judging through speech but will not handle in judgement so radical.
A gun owner does, or at least prepares him/herself for such thing.

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Europe is part of the "Western World", so what are you implying?

Economicly, yes. But that's not what I ment.

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You suggest that we "westerners" are stupid and weak.

I suggest the ''western'' main culture is ignorant and weak.
I have not said a thing about the individual.

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Hitler used that same rhetoric against Jews and blacks. Ironic, no?

You can not compare my sayings to Hitler.
That's just pathetic.

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I was under the assumption that this was a Christian forum.

Thanks for making me laugh.

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In Belgium students get stabbed by others in their throat because of not giving information of a girl.

And we have people been killed for an iPod.

These things have also happened here.
But do not forget that the criminal of today can be a changed man tomorrow.

Matt wrote:

And we have people been killed for an iPod.

Polish criminals though, mind you

Zneeuwziel, you got a pm coming up

I fired my first gun at age 8 and learned massive amounts of gun safety long before many ever do. I have cleaned guns, repolished them etc all before i was 10 years old.

I do not currently own a gun. My wife doesnt like the thought of having one around. I will buy a rifle this fall as I will be deer hunting.

this past fall my uncle shot a deer, and let me have the meat, my family ate off that single deer for about 5 months. (well we had tons of vegetables and stuff with it gosh... not just carnivores)
anyway, i live out in the country now, so its a different feeling. Having a gun is more for hunting than protection.

I know for a fact that if i was carrying a gun and was attacked, my response would probably be more inclined to use the gun than if i was unarmed. I have been attacked before and due to my large size and strength, well they usually run away or something. One guy hit me in the gut as hard as he could and then was like" oh crap" when i said, hey why did you do that.





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Well according to statistics Washington DC has the highest murder rate and highest amount of gun crimes in the US and they aren't allowed to own handguns or any weapons for self defense.Gun crime increases greatly after heavy gun laws are put in place the UK and Australia are examples of this along with Washington DC. In the US 700,000 gun crimes are committed but over 2.5 Million crimes are stopped by law abiding citizens carrying a firearm, 1.5million of these crimes are stopped by a handgun. Weapon/gun control according to history and statistics does not work and actually increases crime most likely due to the fact that victims have no means to fight back with and criminals are not left having to guess whether or not their intended victim might be able to kill them. Sneeuwziel when did God ever tell Christians to be defenseless? God condones killing a thief and Jesus told his disciples to sell their clothes for swords also I would much rather live and serve God than to die at the hands of a mugger. If I have to defend myself and I have to shoot someone how am I passing judgment? I am not going around shooting people because they are "bad people" I am defending myself. I would like to see what you would do if a criminal tied up your friends and family and was intending to rape and kill them all, would you stand by and do nothing if you had the means to act? A gun used for self defense is not "judging" anyone it's protection, and if carrying a weapon is good enough for jesus it's good enough for me

Oh and how am I a fascist and a weakling, explain that to me? You say I am passing judgment yet you judge me so quickly. God will protect me but who is to say he isn't the one guiding the bullet that could one day be necessary to save my life? God protects us yet he doesn't want us to tempt him, we are expected as Christians to be prepared and to defend our brothers.

Quote from an article:

"I have been asked on occasion how I can justify carrying a gun and being a Christian at the same time. This is always posed by someone who is trying to trip me up. It can either be a devout Christian asking the question, or a Hedonistic heathen; it doesn’t matter. There are those who believe, or choose to believe, that a Christian must be absolutely passive in all things. I am not just referring to those Christians who ride a horse and buggy. I have been asked about my views on self defense by Christians of most every denomination. Some are genuinely seeking an answer. Others just want to chastise me for not being as "faithful" as themselves

Many will accept every modern worldly convenience, but scoff at the idea of trying to protect oneself or the life of another. Their attitude seems to be that "God will protect us". They do have a valid point. God will protect us from the evils of this world, if he so chooses. I would rather have God on my side than a battery of Sidewinder missiles. Indeed, our God can protect us. However, that attitude would lead one to believe that he could walk through Harlem wearing a Ku Klux Klan outfit campaigning for George Wallace, and that "God will protect us". God could get you through that, but Jesus said that we should not tempt God. I tend to agree with his assessment."

Why do you think the police are more qualified to carry firearms? Is it because they are trained in their use? I also was trained how to properly handle use and store a firearm and I do practice whenever I can. Is it because the government knows better? The government is of this world and is man made it's no more qualified to make decisions than any one else. Sneeuwziel do you have some sort of hatred or dislike of me? Or do you just like to make unfounded generalizations and pass judgment on people and groups? I see you are quick to be angered over such trivial things as a discussion online not aimed to criticize others in any way. Call me weak and a fascist if you want since your words motivated by hatred hold no value what-so-ever.

Sebat wrote:

One guy hit me in the gut as hard as he could and then was like" oh crap" when i said, hey why did you do that.
.

my hero

-In 1911, Turkey established gun control. Subsequently, from 1915 to 1917, 1.5-million
Armenians, deprived of the means to defend themselves, were rounded up and killed.
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. Then, from 1929 to 1953, approximately 20-
millon dissidents were rounded up and killed.

-In 1938 Germany established gun control. From 1939 to 1945 over 13-million Jews, gypsies,
homosexuals, mentally ill, union leaders, Catholics and others, unable to fire a shot in protest,
were rounded up and killed.

-In 1935, China established gun control. Subsequently, between 1948 and 1952, over 20-million
dissidents were rounded up and killed.

-In 1956, Cambodia enshrined gun control. In just two years (1975-1977) over one million
"educated" people were rounded up and killed.

In 1964, Guatemala locked in gun control. From 1964 to 1981, over 100,000 Mayan Indians
were rounded up and killed as a result of their inability to defend themselves.

-In 1970, Uganda got gun control. Over the next nine years over 300,000 CHRISTIANS were rounded
up and killed.

Over 56-million people have died because of gun control in the last century ...

Myth: Guns are often used to commit violent crimes
-Fact: 90% of all violent crimes in the U.S. do not involve firearms of any type.

-Fact: Even in crimes where the offender possessed a gun during the commission of the crime,
83% did not use or threaten to use the gun.

-Fact: Less than 1% of firearms will ever be used in the commission of a crime.

-Fact: Two-thirds of the people who die each year from gunfire are criminals being shot by other
criminals.

Myth: Gun control in Australia is curbing crime
Fact: Crime has been rising since a sweeping ban on private gun ownership. In the first two
years after gun-owners were forced to surrender 640,381 personal firearms, government statistics
show a dramatic increase in criminal activity. In 2001-2002, homicides were up another
20%
From the inception of firearm confiscation to March 27, 2000, the numbers are:
• Gun murders up 19%
• Armed robbery up 69%
• Home invasions up 21%
The sad part is that in the 15 years before national gun confiscation:
• Firearm-related homicides dropped nearly 66%
• Firearm-related deaths fell 50%
Fact: Gun crimes are rising throughout Australia after guns were banned. In Sydney alone,
robbery rates with guns rose 160% in 2001, more in the previous year.

Myth: Britain has strict gun control and a low crime rate
-Fact: Street robberies
soared 28% in 2001.
Violent crime was up
11%, murders up 4%,
and rapes are up 14%

-Fact: This trend
continues in 2004 with a
10% increase in street
crime, 8% increase in
muggings, and a
22% increase in
robberies.

-Fact: “ ... nothing in the statistics for England and Wales to suggest that either the stricter
controls on handguns prior to 1997 or the ban imposed since have controlled access to such
firearms by criminals.”

-Fact: Comparing crime rates
between America and Britain is
flawed. In America, a gun crime is
recorded as a gun crime. In
Britain, a crime is only recorded
when there is a final disposition (a
conviction). All unsolved gun
crimes in Britain are not reported
as gun crimes, grossly
under counting the amount of gun
crime there. To make matters
worse, British law enforcement has
been exposed for falsifying
criminal reports to create falsely
lower crime figures, in part to
preserve tourism.

-Fact: Between 1997 and 1999, there were 429 murders in London, the highest two-year figure
for more than 10 years – nearly two-thirds of those involved firearms – in a country that has
virtually banned private firearm ownership.

-Fact: The U.K. has strict gun control
and a rising homicide rate of 1.4 per
100,000. Switzerland has the highest per
capita firearm ownership rate on the
planet (all males age 20 to 42 are
required to keep rifles or pistols at home)
has a homicide rate of 1.2 per 100,000.
And to date, there has never been a
schoolyard massacre in Switzerland.

Myth: The United
States has the
highest violence
rate because of
lax gun control
Fact: The top 10 countries
for homicide do not include
the U.S.

Myth: Police are our protection - people don't need guns
-Fact: Tell that to 18,209 murder victims, 497,950 robbery victims, and 96,122 rape victims that
the police could not help.

-Fact: The courts have consistently ruled that the police do not have an obligation to protect
individuals. In Warren v. District of Columbia Metropolitan Police Department, 444 A.2d 1
(D.C. App. 1981), the court stated: `… courts have without exception concluded that when a
municipality or other governmental entity undertakes to furnish police services, it assumes a duty
only to the public at large and not to individual members of the community.' Well, except for
politicians that receive taxpayer-financed bodyguards.

-Fact: There are not enough police to protect everyone. In 1999, there were about 150,000 police
officers on duty at any one time.335
• This is on-duty police. This includes desk clerks, command sergeants, etc. – far fewer
than 150,000 cops are cruising your neighborhood.
• There were approximately 271,933,702 people living in the United States.
• Thus there is only one on-duty cop for every 1,813 citizens!

-Fact: Former Florida Attorney General Jim Smith told Florida legislators that police
responded to only 200,000 of 700,000 calls for help to Dade County authorities.
Fact: The United States Department of Justice found that, in 1989, there were 168,881
crimes of violence for which police had not responded within 1 hour.
Fact: 95% of the time police arrive too late to prevent a crime or arrest the suspect.

Myth: “Cop Killer” bullets need to be banned
-Fact: KTW rounds, wrongly labeled as “cop killer” bullets, were designed by police officers340,
for use by police to penetrate hard targets like car windshields. KTWs have never been sold to
the general public.

Myth: Teflon bullets are designed to penetrate police
bullet-proof vests

-Fact: KTW rounds are Teflon coated to prevent heat build-up in a police officer’s gun barrel, not
to pierce body armor.

Myth: Countries with strict gun control have less crime
-Fact: In America, we can demonstrate that private ownership of guns reduces crime, but from
country to country there is no correlation between gun AVAILABILITY and the violent crime rate.

-Fact: Countries with the strictest gun-control laws also tended to have the highest homicide
rates.

-Fact: “ ... the major surveys
completed in the past 20 years
or more provides no evidence of
any relationship between the
total number of legally held
firearms in society and the rate
of armed crime. Nor is there a
relationship between the
severity of controls imposed in
various countries or the mass of bureaucracy involved with many control systems with the
apparent ease of access to firearms by criminals and terrorists.”

-Fact: Switzerland has extremely lenient gun control (more so than the U.S.), and has the thirdlowest
homicide rate of the top nine major European countries, and the same per capita rate as
England and Wales.

-Fact: In Canada
around 1920, before
there was any form of
gun control, their
homicide rate was 7%
of the U.S rate. By
1986, and after
significant gun control
legislation, Canada’s
homicide rate was
35% of the U.S. rate
a significant increase.
In 2003, Canada had a
violent crime rate more
than double that of the
U.S. (963 vs. 475 per 100,000)

-Fact: Many of the countries with the strictest gun control have the highest rates of violent crime.
Australia and England, which have virtually banned gun ownership, have the highest rates of
robbery, sexual assault, and assault with force of the top 17 industrialized countries.

Myth: Guns are not effective in preventing crime against
women
-Fact: Of the 2,500,000 annual self-defense cases using guns, more than 7.7% (192,500) are by
women defending themselves against sexual abuse.

-Fact: When a woman was armed with a gun or knife, only 3% of rape attacks are completed,
compared to 32% when unarmed.293

-Fact: The probability of serious injury from an attack is 2.5 times greater for women offering no
resistance than for women resisting with a gun. Men also benefit from using a gun, but the
benefits are smaller at 1.4 times more likely to receive a serious injury.

-Fact: 28.5% of women have a gun in the
house.

-Fact: 41.7% of women either own or have rapid
access to guns.

-Fact: In 1966, the city of Orlando responded to a
wave of sexual assaults by offering firearms
training classes to women. Rapes dropped by nearly 90% the following year.

-Fact: Arthur Kellerman, a researcher whose work is often cited by gun control groups said “If
you've got to resist, you're chances of being hurt are less the more lethal your weapon. If that
were my wife, would I want her to have a .38 Special in her hand? Yeah.”

Myth: You are more likely to be injured or killed using a
gun for self-defense
Fact: You are far more likely to survive a violent assault if you defend yourself with a gun. In
episodes where a robbery victim was injured, the injury/defense rates were:
Resisting with a gun 6%
Did nothing at all 25%
Resisted with a knife 40%
Non-violent resistance 45%

Myth: Only police should have guns
-Fact: “...most criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about
running into the police.”

-Fact: 11% of police shootings kill an innocent person - about 2% of shootings by citizens kill an
innocent person.

Myth: Private ownership of guns is not effective in
preventing crime
-Fact: Every year, people in the United States use a gun to defend themselves against criminals
an estimated 2,500,000 times – more than 6,500 people a day, or once every 13 seconds. Of
these instances, 15.6% of the people using a firearm defensively stated that they "almost
certainly" saved their lives by doing so.

-Fact: Firearms are used 60 TIMES more often to protect lives than to take lives.

-Fact: In 83.5% (2,087,500) of these successful gun defenses, the attacker either threatened or
used force first, proving that guns are very well suited for self-defense.

-Fact: Of the 2,500,000 times citizens use guns to defend themselves, 92% merely brandish their
gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers.

-Fact: Less than 8% of the time does a citizen wound his or her attacker, and in less than one in a
thousand instances is the attacker killed.

-Fact: For every accidental death, suicide or homicide with a firearm, 10 lives are saved through
defensive use.

-Fact: When using guns in self-defense287:
• 83% of robbery victims were not injured
• 88% of assault victims were not hurt
• 76% of all self-defense use of guns never involve firing a single shot

-Fact: After the implementation of Canada's 1977 gun controls prohibiting handgun possession
for protection, the “breaking and entering” crime rate rose 25%, surpassing the American rate.

Myth: Gun makers are selling plastic guns that slip
through metal detectors
-Fact: There is no such thing as a ‘plastic gun’. This myth started in 1980 when Glock
introduced a handgun with a polymer frame (not the entire firearm). Most of a Glock is metal
(83% by weight) and detectable in common metal and x-ray detectors. "Despite a relatively
common impression to the contrary, there is no current non-metal firearm which is not
reasonably detectable by present technology and methods in use at our airports today, nor to my
knowledge is anyone on the threshold of developing such a firearm."

Watch this video and you'll be against weapons in no-time trust me!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23cjXModWpA

'wtf ow ow ow' :p

Let me simplify this for y' all.


Point 1-

People that have been victims of violent crime almost ALWAYS support gun rights.


People that have never been victims of violent crime tend to be the ones to not support gun rights.


Point 2-


Gun control is victim disarmament. Criminals have guns regardless of legality, they are criminals.

I sometimes wonder about the countries that don't let their citizens keep private weapons, what will they do if someone attacks the country and the military can't stop them? The police can't save everyone if even anyone and will be spread to thin to even prevent any attack, citizens will be screwed and have no means of self defense. I think the Swiss have the right idea by requiring males 20-42 to have a rifle or handgun, their citizens would be able to defend their towns and families. Even if they all die I say it's better to die one by one taking some with you instead of getting a mass grave with no chance of survival. And don't think citizens are incapable of fighting for their lives and defending themselves.

Letter Re: Retreat Security--Lessons Learned from the Rhodesian Experience

Jim:
After giving it some thought [to post-TEOTWAWKI retreat security], I think we need to study many of the homestead/farmstead fortifications used during the [late 1970s] Rhodesian Bush War and to a certain extend in rural South Africa in the present day. Of course, one would need to adjust for legalities so one would not be breaking any laws. - Lame Wolf
[JWR Adds: Lame Wolf also sent us a great quote from a letter by "Rhodesian" that was first posted at the Small Wars Journal (SWJ) web site. BTW I recommend the SWJ site--in particular their Reference Library pages--as a research tool for anyone seeking insight on retreat security and living in turbulent times.]:

Rhodesian Farmers Defensive Arrangements
At every farm, defensive arrangements were made up to suit their particular situation and infrastructure. The following would be a general overview:

1) Most farmers fitted hand-grenade grills to the outside of all windows. Doors leading outside were likewise security grilled.

2) Many farmers built thick walls about a meter in front of bedroom windows to stop bullets, but particularly to deal with RPG-7s. Beds were never placed against the outside walls of a farmhouse.

3) It was usual to have a designated safe room within the farmhouse that could be defended until support arrived. Sometimes this was a central corridor that allowed the farmer to move into other rooms to attack those outside through the windows. In the loft or ceiling over the safe room, some farmers laid sand bags to deal with possible mortar attack.

4) Every farmhouse in a given area was linked by a radio system called “Agric Alert”. This allowed radio contact with other farmers who formed their own defense units, usually under the umbrella of PATU (Police Anti-Terrorist Unit), which would react to a call from one of their neighbors for assistance. Another means of alarm raising was the use of a signal rocket - The Agric-Alert system was not done away with after the war, such was the lack of trust in Mugabe`s promises. It performed admirably as well when dealing with criminal activity such as stock theft. The alert system arranged for all farmers to check in with each other at a given time in the morning and evening as a means of monitoring their status.

5) Around all farmhouse gardens were erected security fences with barbed wire (or razor wire) and which often had simple alarm systems built into them. Some I believe were electrified, if not before the end of the war, certainly afterwards. Within the fence boundary, every farmer usually had a couple of large dogs. The dogs were fed their largest meal in the morning instead of the evening, in order to help keep them awake at night. Other farmers had geese or ducks, which made excellent guard “dogs.” Gardens were kept deliberately trim so as to keep clear fields of view and fire etc. The farm houses also had outside flood lighting erected in such a way as to blind those outside the fence, but not to interfere with the vision of those within the farmhouse.

6) All farmers and their wives were armed with an assortment of weapons, and most farmers were trained military men. They had at least one assault rifle, usually an FAL 7.62, assorted shot guns, .303 hunting rifles and so forth. It was also not unusual for wives to carry Uzi`s around with them, or other equivalents such as the Rhodesian Cobra. All members of the family were trained on the various weaponry available to them, including the kids. In one famous incident a child successfully fought off the attacking terrorists after both of his parents were wounded. The main defensive weapons were at all times within immediate reach of the adult farmhouse occupants, and were placed next to the bed at night.

7) Some farmers used mine protected vehicles, as a favourite of terrorists was to landmine the driveway outside the fence. A great deal of time was spent looking at the dirt roads for freshly dug earth points and so forth when driving around the farm.

8) Some farm gardens and particular points external to the fence were wired with home-made claymore like devices strategically placed in areas where attackers were likely to take cover. In a few instances farmers deliberately erected “cover positions” for the terrorists to use outside the fence, which were then blown up upon attack. A particular favourite was a section of plastic piping filled with nails, nuts, bolts, screws and so forth. I witnessed tests with these and the tubes cleared large areas of their intended aiming point of all bush cover and leaves from trees etc for about 30 meters into the bush. By placing a number of figure 8`s in front of these tests, it was apparent from the strike patterns that not one of them would have walked again had they been terrorists.

9) Some farmers also hired soldiers on leave to guard their premises at night. Usually these were men looking for extra beer money. They were called Bright Lights [referring to the bright lights of Salisbury, the nation's capitol, since most of these were "city boys"], and often ended up in fire fights with the terrorists, where they came as a nasty surprise to the terrs when the latter were expecting a nice soft hit and run. Like all farmers in an area, Bright Lights would participate in the support of other farmers when the situation required.

10) Good relationships with farm labor, particularly the house staff, very often warned of problems before they occurred. All of us who grew up in the country have fond memories of those employees who took care of us as kids, and who often placed themselves at great risk for doing so.

In the end in a SHTF(Shit hits the fan) situation you have to learn you can't rely on the authorities to defend you since in a widespread emergency there aren't enough police to protect everyone. Your personal safety and the safety of your family could at one point depend totally on your ability to provide shelter and protection. People are to reliant on the technologies of today and don't realize that it only takes a power outage or a natural storm to drive people to do horrible things to each other.

I'm feeling ill now so i'll read and reply on this later

I'm not going to be online much for awhile, read my post in the prayer thread.

take care brother.