Carrying a firearm

I personally will carry a concealed firearm once I am old enough to get a permit and I am a strong supporter of firearms. I like to do a lot of target shooting and just find guns interesting in general, but some people say it's wrong for a Christian to carry a weapon. I personally do not believe that and I have a few links that might give you some information, but what do you think on the issue of a Christian carrying a gun?Do you carry one? Are there any laws that prevent you from owning or carrying one?

Christians and guns

Christians and guns 2

Christians and Guns 3

Self Defense- A Basic Human Right

Second Amendment Foundation

I know it's all pro gun, but if you have a different opinion and want to discuss it that's fine with me.

My favorite quote is when Jesus told his disciples "...he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one", what is a gun but modern mans sword? Yes God will protect you but he also expects you to do some work on your part and be prepared whether it be to defend against Satan with our spiritual sword, the Bible, or to defend ourselves our family our friends or neighbors against the physical threat posed by Satan and those that live for him(the world) with our physical sword. I'm not saying having a gun will prevent everything and is the solution to every problem but it is definitely preferable to have a gun and scare off an attacker or kill him than to watch him rape and murder your family.



QUOTE from one of the above links:

"In short, while we are not mandated to defend ourselves it is prudent to do so, and nothing can excuse us of our responsibility to defend others. As Christians are required to confront evil in all it's forms and often physical force is all evil will respond to. Therefore, allowing yourself to be defenseless is really just bowing to evil and certainly not loving your neighbor. We don't live by the sword (or gun) but never forget that Christ told Peter to put his sword away, not throw it away!"

I personally believe that Jesus wanted his Disciples to be ready for the road ahead,so he told them to sell their clothes for swords, but Peter showed misjudgment by acting the way he did, we should have good judgment when handling a firearm just like we should show good judgment in any aspect of life.

In the end taking preventative measures can save a lot of heart ache and pain if we are able to save loved once from harm, whether it be a first aid kit, CPR class, fire extinguisher , or a gun that saves them.

In Belgium you can not carry firearms or any weapon, unless when hunting in woods (during hunting season). Or when you are a policeman

I think it should be ok to carry one, but you would need a license telling you are sane etc.

We have licenses to own them, and we can use them for target shooting in areas designed for doing that.
Me (nor my family) have a license though.

Weakling

i don't believe i need guns to defend myself or my loved ones. i don't think my war is against flesh and blood, so i won't need anything to harm people with. the government carries the sword to punish the unrighteous, that's not my responsibility.

i could go into this a little deeper, but i don't have the time for it right now. maybe i'll post some more later on.

I don't think that all people should bare firearms. But for girls and eldery people it is most devently good thing to have a firearm. Girls get qaute offten herrased and attackt and..raped. Wail eldery people get assaulted in there own home. Sometimes they get so beaten up the they almost die! In my opinion they should just shoot those basterds!!

The "normal" people don't neseseraly have to arm't whit a firearm. Some selfdefence or marchial arts mait just work as wel...Or just be big and strong and beat the crap out off bastards attacking you.

Firearms shouldn't be legal for civilians, we don't need them when nobody else carries one. I did shoot several clips empty with a 9 mm once though

Why wouldn't we need one? Just because you don't carry one doesn't mean rapists and muggers wont still go after you. In the USA over 2,000,000 crimes are stopped every year by civilians with legal guns. Also a disarmed population is much easier for the government to throw around than one that can fight back. I personally will never let the government take away my firearms and I wont care whether or not guns become illegal to own here.
Around August or so I am going to hopefully buy a Bushmaster .450 Link
And possibly a 5.56 for target shooting Link
Right now I have a Ruger .22 for target shooting along with a .338 for hunting big game like moose and a .44 magnum revolver mainly for just shooting since I don't have anyone to go bear hunting with.

I got to shoot an ar-15 once, similar to this one , although without the red dot scope. What a great rifle, too bad their not civilian legal.

I've always wanted an AR-15 and here in Alaska the gun laws are pretty lax compared to other states so instead of getting a new amp which I need I decided an AR-15 is a lot more fun Some people think it sucks you can't get a full auto rifle but I just tell them to pull the trigger really fast lol It's more accurate that way anyways and what does anyone need full auto for? The only way you can get a full auto here is to get a class 3 permit and get a pre-automatic weapon ban rifle.

Sneeuwziel wrote:

Weakling

How am I a weakling because I want an effective means of self defense? Martial arts wont save me if there is more than one attacker, also I do not have a place in my area to learn a martial art. Though I do live close to a shooting range and have access to firearms and have knowledge of firearm safety. People are raped, mugged, molested and murdered every day all a firearm is is an equalizer that gives me the ability to take hold of the situation and possibly diffuse it because attackers want easy prey not someone who can retire them from their life of crime.

Den Kulten Krijgert wrote:

Firearms shouldn't be legal for civilians, we don't need them when nobody else carries one. I did shoot several clips empty with a 9 mm once though

Didn't the Nazi's betray their citizens? In the 20th century over 170 MILLION!! Civilians were exterminated by their own governments who first proceeded to take away their weapons. Is the government really worthy of your complete and total trust? Their mission is not to protect you from harm and it's not a police officers duty to protect you either, his job is to uphold the law which may or may not include saving you from anything. What is better a cop that could be miles away or a gun that is already in your hand? If you think it will reduce crime by taking away guns from civilians you are sadly mistaken, what makes you think criminals who are already doing something illegal will give their weapons to the police because it's against the law? Civilians not being able to carry an effective means of self defense that follow the law will be at a disadvantage to those who ignore the law and do what is wrong.

letlev wrote:

Den Kulten Krijgert wrote:

Firearms shouldn't be legal for civilians, we don't need them when nobody else carries one. I did shoot several clips empty with a 9 mm once though

Didn't the Nazi's betray their citizens? In the 20th century over 170 MILLION!! Civilians were exterminated by their own governments who first proceeded to take away their weapons. Is the government really worthy of your complete and total trust? Their mission is not to protect you from harm and it's not a police officers duty to protect you either, his job is to uphold the law which may or may not include saving you from anything. What is better a cop that could be miles away or a gun that is already in your hand? If you think it will reduce crime by taking away guns from civilians you are sadly mistaken, what makes you think criminals who are already doing something illegal will give their weapons to the police because it's against the law? Civilians not being able to carry an effective means of self defense that follow the law will be at a disadvantage to those who ignore the law and do what is wrong.

Besides, the main reason that we have the right to bear arms in America is so that, if need be, we can overthrow the government should they ever attempt to start taking away our freedoms.

Which they are starting to get dangerously close to.

Sneeuwziel wrote:

Weakling

Also read this >>Link explain to me a 15 year old teenager who is 5' 8" how I can run away or overpower a criminal who chases an innocent man for no reason and ends up trying in the end to take out the innocent man who is 6 feet 8 inches tall 260 pounds and is holding an automatic assault rifle? Running from a criminal can provoke a chase which can anger him just as trying to fight him with your own hands can, in the end I'll take the rifle over martial arts when it comes to self defense, the rifle stopped the criminal didn't it?

Belizaire the Black wrote:

letlev wrote:

Den Kulten Krijgert wrote:

Firearms shouldn't be legal for civilians, we don't need them when nobody else carries one. I did shoot several clips empty with a 9 mm once though

Didn't the Nazi's betray their citizens? In the 20th century over 170 MILLION!! Civilians were exterminated by their own governments who first proceeded to take away their weapons. Is the government really worthy of your complete and total trust? Their mission is not to protect you from harm and it's not a police officers duty to protect you either, his job is to uphold the law which may or may not include saving you from anything. What is better a cop that could be miles away or a gun that is already in your hand? If you think it will reduce crime by taking away guns from civilians you are sadly mistaken, what makes you think criminals who are already doing something illegal will give their weapons to the police because it's against the law? Civilians not being able to carry an effective means of self defense that follow the law will be at a disadvantage to those who ignore the law and do what is wrong.

Besides, the main reason that we have the right to bear arms in America is so that, if need be, we can overthrow the government should they ever attempt to start taking away our freedoms.

Which they are starting to get dangerously close to.

Well with how powerful our government is a forceful take over by civilians seems out of the question, right now the most people can do is to actively take part in their local government and join organizations such as the NRA, who knows maybe one day the government will turn on it's citizens and if that day ever comes I'll be here with my rifle waiting

letlev wrote:

Sneeuwziel wrote:

Weakling

How am I a weakling because I want an effective means of self defense? Martial arts wont save me if there is more than one attacker, also I do not have a place in my area to learn a martial art. Though I do live close to a shooting range and have access to firearms and have knowledge of firearm safety. People are raped, mugged, molested and murdered every day all a firearm is is an equalizer that gives me the ability to take hold of the situation and possibly diffuse it because attackers want easy prey not someone who can retire them from their life of crime.

''He who esteems life more then fulfulling the will of God is allready dead to the only true life.
Trying to save his life he loses it.
Where non-resistance costs the sacrifice of a single life or of some material welfare, resistance costs a thousand such sacrifices.''
- Adin Ballou

Carrying a firearm means you are being a judge of every situation yourself.
People are raped, mugged, molested and murdered everyday by people who also believe it is right to carry a firearm. Fighting fire with fire. I guess such stupidity truly is a western thing. For allmost NO ONE around here carries a gun himself/herself and the west-european crime rates are far below.

Having a gun is not 'an effective mean of self defense'.
It just point out that you are indeed a weakling who wouldn't win a fair fight.
Why do you worry about such things? As a child of God.
Are you afraid to lose your earthly life?

And please, stop talking about nazi's.
For you talk like a fascist yourself.

try to keep name calling like 'fascist' and stuff down mkay

Sneeuwziel wrote:

Carrying a firearm means you are being a judge of every situation yourself.

Possibly.

Sneeuwziel wrote:

It just point out that you are indeed a weakling who wouldn't win a fair fight.

So, who's judging now?

Sneeuwziel wrote:

I guess such stupidity truly is a western thing.

Europe is part of the "Western World", so what are you implying?

Sneeuwziel wrote:

And please, stop talking about nazi's. For you talk like a fascist yourself.

You suggest that we "westerners" are stupid and weak. Hitler used that same rhetoric against Jews and blacks. Ironic, no?


These types of threads are becoming increasingly frustrating. Letlev gave his opinion why he would chose to carry a firearm, which is a right that we have in our country. Instead of anyone offering a constructive counter argument, all I see are insults and condescending speech.

I was under the assumption that this was a Christian forum.

It's mostly because of the fact that on matters like these there is quite a cultural difference.
I understand the use of weapons to some extent.

In America, do you need to do a test to see if you're sane enough to carry a weapon ?
because that is one thing I think is quite neccesary.

Matt wrote:

It's mostly because of the fact that on matters like these there is quite a cultural difference.
I understand the use of weapons to some extent.

In America, do you need to do a test to see if you're sane enough to carry a weapon ?
because that is one thing I think is quite neccesary.

I don't think so. But you do need a criminal background check.

It's up to individual states to decide. Although you have the right to own a gun in every state, not every state allows you to carry a concealed weapon.

Matt wrote:

It's mostly because of the fact that on matters like these there is quite a cultural difference.
I understand the use of weapons to some extent.

In America, do you need to do a test to see if you're sane enough to carry a weapon ?
because that is one thing I think is quite neccesary.

Well, they check your criminal record and do a background check. But no psychological test, directly.



One thing I've always held to be true both by logic and observation is that.. Disarming Citizens is simply Victim disarmorment. Criminals will always have guns, rather it is legal or not. They are criminals.

true indeed.

letlev wrote:

Just because you don't carry one doesn't mean rapists and muggers wont still go after you. In the USA over 2,000,000 crimes are stopped every year by civilians with legal guns.

Just too mad rapists and muggers also carry guns. The US has one of the highest murder rates by guns in the world.

letlev wrote:

Also a disarmed population is much easier for the government to throw around than one that can fight back.

That argument is futile. Good luck with defending yourself with your handpistol against soldiers carrying M16s, driving in freaking tanks and bombing your home with Stealthjets.
If your argument would be valid, you should also have the right to own F16s and tanks. Which you don't. When this law was invented, civilians could obtain the same weapons as the government. Nowadays, that isn't true, thus making the entire law invalid.


Ash: That is correct. However, a 14 year old mugger around here doesn't carry a gun, thus he stays a mugger, and doesn't accidentally become a murderer. How often do thefts go wrong and end up in homicide because some idiot couldn't handle the adrenaline and started shooting?

Also, how easy do you think it'd be around here to obtain 2 machine-guns as a depressed 16 year old? The number of Columbine High School incidents in the Netherlands is 0. In the entire of Western Europe it's 2 I think. How many in the US?

[quote="Max"]

letlev wrote:

Also, how easy do you think it'd be around here to obtain 2 machine-guns as a depressed 16 year old? The number of Columbine High School incidents in the Netherlands is 0. In the entire of Western Europe it's 2 I think. How many in the US?

Too damn many.

Max wrote:

letlev wrote:

Just because you don't carry one doesn't mean rapists and muggers wont still go after you. In the USA over 2,000,000 crimes are stopped every year by civilians with legal guns.

Just too mad rapists and muggers also carry guns. The US has one of the highest murder rates by guns in the world.

letlev wrote:

Also a disarmed population is much easier for the government to throw around than one that can fight back.

That argument is futile. Good luck with defending yourself with your handpistol against soldiers carrying M16s, driving in freaking tanks and bombing your home with Stealthjets.
If your argument would be valid, you should also have the right to own F16s and tanks. Which you don't. When this law was invented, civilians could obtain the same weapons as the government. Nowadays, that isn't true, thus making the entire law invalid.


Ash: That is correct. However, a 14 year old mugger around here doesn't carry a gun, thus he stays a mugger, and doesn't accidentally become a murderer. How often do thefts go wrong and end up in homicide because some idiot couldn't handle the adrenaline and started shooting?

Also, how easy do you think it'd be around here to obtain 2 machine-guns as a depressed 16 year old? The number of Columbine High School incidents in the Netherlands is 0. In the entire of Western Europe it's 2 I think. How many in the US?

That's great.. those incidences suck. Of course the Netherlands don't have 600 million people either.

correct, but also percentage-wise the Netherlands are one of the countries with the lowest murder rate in the world.

I'm not shouting you're wrong with your laws, the US is a different culture. However, there are valid arguments to be made against legal weapons. Also, I'm yet to hear a valid argument pro-guns.