Fitna anyone?

(yes, let's give him/it some more attention, which he/it doesn't deserve)


Just saw it...

What do you think?

I think it's OK, because it's just a compilation of newsflashes about Islamic extremists. There is not really much hatred, just fear in Geert.

I don't hate Islam, neither do I share their beliefs, but I think they have the same problem as Christianity. They get a bad reputation because of some assholes that screw things up in the name of a religion. Christians are still hated for crusades we didn't take part in, Muslims are hated because of some terrorist attacks....

I completely agree with you my friend

Me too.

Haven't seen all of it yet, only some parts shown on TV..
Probably will watch it tomorrow or something.

Also agree,

I have lots of respect for the strength of the faith of muslims (and jews),
It's just sad that they are hated for what others have done in the name of their ''god''.

Some are just plain sad.
Others deserve respect.

It is impossible to judge a whole religion because of the acts of 1 man.
Although it's also impossible to see them all individually.

Chris' post is pretty much what I agree with.

Galbak wrote:

I think it's OK, because it's just a compilation of newsflashes about Islamic extremists. There is not really much hatred, just fear in Geert.

I don't hate Islam, neither do I share their beliefs, but I think they have the same problem as Christianity. They get a bad reputation because of some assholes that screw things up in the name of a religion. Christians are still hated for crusades we didn't take part in, Muslims are hated because of some terrorist attacks....

I'm proud of the Christian Crusaders.. Christians that we should all look up too. If it wasn't for them, the Entire West would have fallen under the sword of tyrannical Islam..

Some facts about Islam and the Crusades.

Islam (Mohammed specifically) started The "Crusades"

He began killing and conquering the predominantly Christian Middle east that existed at the time. 600 a.d. +

The Christian Crusade was a response to 4 CENTURIES of Muslim conquering.

Some of the greatest Martyr's of the Christian Faith were the Knight's Templar...if you don't believe this..read their many prayers and literature!

I think the Crusades started as something interesting,
and maybe even something good.

The problem I think, was that they didn't stop, and kept going
and in the end didn't have the right motivation anymore.
(okay I wasn't there)

Ash, I think you would like the new Babylon Mystery Orchestra CD called Axis of Evil,
It talks about the current threat the Islam is, the guy behind it dresses in Crusader clothes and stuff.

It's quite interesting
Don't say that I agree with everything though.

One of the evil Christian Crusaders prayers..haha

-- Saint Ignatius of Loyola, a great kinght's templar soldier who became a priest--

Just Because You Are My God


Oh, my God, I want to love you
Not that I might gain eternal heaven
Nor escape eternal hell
But, Lord, to love you just because
you are my God.Grant me to give to you
And not to count the cost,
To fight for you
And not to mind the wounds,
To labor and to ask for no reward
except the knowledge that I
serve my God.


And of course King Richard is one of my Heros!

What a warrior...the famous account of the enemy of King Richard..

"And on that day," wrote Saladin's scribe, Beha al-Din, with both disdain and admiration, "the King of England, a lance in his hand, rode down the whole length of our army, and none of our men did come forth to challenge him."

"Since the beginning of the world we have never heard of such a knight, so brave and so experienced in arms,' said one emir. 'In every deed at arms he is without rival, first to advance, last to retreat. We did our best to seize him, but in vain, for no one can escape his sword. His attack is dreadful. To engage with him is fatal. His deeds are not human."

I don't think swords are a solution... That's all. I can't say I doubt the faith of the Crusaders (cause I wasn't there obviously), but I think when it comes to displaying Christian love, they sort of miss their goal...

Ash wrote:

I'm proud of the Christian Crusaders.. Christians that we should all look up too. If it wasn't for them, the Entire West would have fallen under the sword of tyrannical Islam..

I hope you'll find God one day...

Please watch where this is going to.
People all can have their own opinions,
and we should have respect for that.

well i live in Lebanon, and i know the muslims, some are friendly and others aren't.
but sure thing is that i reject their belief because it's based on the sword. their concept of building a nation is totally different than ours. They want to conquer all the region down to Israel, and declare Lebanon an islamic coutry, and threatening by that the christian presence, and we christians are growing small in number

just to let you know,
christans have 2,3(or 4 to much) kids
muslims have 8,9

we need your prayer to save this country.

I worked with muslims for almost a year, maybe even a bit longer.
If I had to guess, around 50% were muslim there.
I was always openly christian, some even asked question about my believes.
Had more fun with them then most christians I've met so far. Most of them were really kind and helpfull.
The one I liked the least was actually a christian from Africa, he was soooo annoying...

I'm not in contact with a lot of muslims,
there was one though, the cool thing about them is
that they're almost always there for you in some situations.
They can be very thrustworthy friends.

Galbak wrote:

I don't think swords are a solution... That's all. I can't say I doubt the faith of the Crusaders (cause I wasn't there obviously), but I think when it comes to displaying Christian love, they sort of miss their goal...

Sometimes the only solution is war. How would have Nazi Germany been stopped otherwise? Could Christian Love have stopped the Holocaust..? My answer would be no and yes. The Love that is Righteous Wrath..which leads to war.

As far the Knight's Templar.. They showed the greatest of Christian love..sacrifice.

Good point,
Sometimes it is indeed a maybe less convenient, yet neccesary solution.
Throughout biblical history and modern day history,
so many wars have been fought, so many people have died,
Some for a great cause, others for a cause that's less good.

A war is in my opinion the last step to be taken when necessary,
first try talking or negotiating.
But there might come a point where words are useless.
I think this is quite sad, and should be avoided as much as possible.
Because war is for no involved parties a great time.
Most of the times there are innocent lives taken, families torn apart,
poverty and hunger.
Yet if it is needed, I do have to say I support it.

World War II is a great example of this.

Ash wrote:

Sometimes the only solution is war. How would have Nazi Germany been stopped otherwise? Could Christian Love have stopped the Holocaust..?

Could christian love have started the Holocaust?
I'd rather die in non-violent resistance then to life by the iron fist.

Violence is never, and will never be, any solution. For a christian.
Fighting fire with fire is what has been forbidden. Erasing evil with evil.
Destroying satan with satan and correcting error with error.

It is, and will allways be, impossible.

What would you care about war anyway? You're safe on the other side of the ocean.
For you it's easy to say that war is a solution because you would only read about it in the morningpapers.
After that you'll just sit back and relax while being completly convinced that your 'boys' are doing a great job.
While at the same time those guys are tearing everything appart.

My grandfather has been in the non-violent resistance during WWII.
He gave the jews a roof above their head, food and care. He hided them for Nazi Germany.
While at the same time boycotting and sabotaging Nazi material/ vehicles.
Without ever killing or even hurting a man. But he fought.

There is this dutch lie: ''Het doel heiligt de middelen''
Which means ''The goal makes proces holy''. Or something like that.
It's a way of thinking which is based on: ''Everything is allowed as long as you will succeed.''
But my friend, that's not how I would want to life.

Sneeuwziel wrote:

Could christian love have started the Holocaust?

The Holocaust wasn't an act of war

Sneeuwziel wrote:

Violence is never, and will never be, any solution. For a christian.
Fighting fire with fire is what has been forbidden. Erasing evil with evil.

Incorrect. Ever read Joshua in the Bible?

Sneeuwziel wrote:

Destroying satan with satan and correcting error with error.

Also, ever read Revelations? It's not a pacifist book.

Sneeuwziel wrote:

What would you care about war anyway? You're safe on the other side of the ocean.
For you it's easy to say that war is a solution because you would only read about it in the morningpapers.
After that you'll just sit back and relax while being completly convinced that your 'boys' are doing a great job.
While at the same time those guys are tearing everything appart.

Same goes for you, you're safely posting on a messageboard saying those soldiers are doing a bad job, while they're in the firelines.

Sneeuwziel wrote:

There is this dutch lie: ''Het doel heiligt de middelen''
Which means ''The goal makes proces holy''. Or something like that.
It's a way of thinking which is based on: ''Everything is allowed as long as you will succeed.''
But my friend, that's not how I would want to life.

The English saying would be "The end justifies the means".

Max wrote:

Incorrect. Ever read Joshua in the Bible?

Jozua was a man being under the illusion of a 'divine war' against Israel.
The old testament allows us to resist evil with evil while at the same time Christ forbids it.
''Do not oppose injury with injury, but rather bear repeated injury from the evil doer''.

The Gospel of Thomas, one of the most un-'corrected' and pure gospels on this earth, tells us about the peacefull messages of Christ. His writing is clean and without the fancy decoration we all now from Lucas, Marcus and Matteus. Simply because this gospel has never been found by Athanasius, the man who decided what writings would have been 'inspired' and which where not. The 'inspired' ones found there place in our New Testament. Of course not without the necessary 'corrections' while all un-inspired and gnostic writings have been destroyed ( or hidden by christians who embraced their beauty ) by the ruling classes of that day. This gospel contains pacifistic and loving lessons of Christ only.

As a christian I put the words of Christ in front of everything else.
Including other gospel passages.
Because after all, it was man who decided what was divine and what was not.

Quote :

Also, ever read Revelations? It's not a pacifist book.

Humanity has not reached the times of Revelations yet.
It is the final judgement of God. During this most of us hide and take shelter.
Still it is not up to man to judgde today.

Quote :

Same goes for you, you're safely posting on a messageboard saying those soldiers are doing a bad job, while they're in the firelines.

They have choses this themself. I am not responsible for such deeds.
But I know people and organizations who choose to rebuild ( without the protection of fire arms ) in places of war.
It's up to you to decide if this is usefull. But it is to them.

Quote :

The English saying would be "The end justifies the means".

Thank you

Sneeuwziel wrote:

Max wrote:

Incorrect. Ever read Joshua in the Bible?

Jozua was a man being under the illusion of a 'divine war' against Israel.

Excuse me? Where do you base that on
Jesus never denied the truth of the OT

"Behold, I do not come to bring peace into the world, but a sword.." - Jesus.


"All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing"- Winston Churchill.



That being said..I am not a fan of war by any means. War is hell. But Peace at any cost is not peace.

Indeed, if noone would have done anything during ww2 there wouldn't be much Jewish people left now. I have great respect for soldiers fighting in the front lines putting there lives in the line every day again. It sure is good your grandpa didn't kill anyone in ww2 Sneeuwziel but sometimes there's no other option then to use violence to destroy evil.
I personally think Hitler was used by satan to destroy Gods people (the Jews).

of course

Love thine enemies...

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Galbak wrote:

Love thine enemies...

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Exactly...Love thine enemies.. they are in fact your enemies although you love them.

It doesn't say..you have no enemies because of love.