A few serious comments...

Looks like there was some heavy discussion while I was at work today.

I have a few things to say...

First, God did not write the Bible. Man/Men wrote the Bible. The Bible was inspired by God....
I see the Bible as a kind of Instruction manual. Just like a video game has an Instruction manual. The Instruction manual will certainly help you in playing the game, but you can still beat the game without reading it. Same goes for the Bible, the Bible will help you and teach you a few things, but you can still go to Heaven without ever reading it.

2nd, Our sexual preference is determined before we are born. Therefore, if someone is Gay, then they were born Gay and God made them that way, or there is a gene in the DNA that causes a person to be Gay. And the same goes for a heterosexual person. God loves the Gay person just as much as the straight person, because they are both His children.

3rd, there may be scripture saying that Homosexuality is wrong and God destroyed Sodom/Gomorrha because of it.
There is also scripture saying the same thing about men with Long Hair, and yet most of the guys here have Long hair, and Jesus himself had long hair. So, if you support the Anti-Gay scripture, then you should cut your hair, if you're a man.

4th, You should not waste your time worrying or being concerned or even praying for someone, just because they live a different lifestyle than you. You need to live your own life, and let everyone else live their own life. If you meet a Gay person who is a Christian, then you should love them and accept them the way they are and be proud and thankful that they know the Lord. And know that they will go to the same Heaven you will go to.

5th, We are in no place or position to say what is right or wrong or to judge anyone. As we are not perfect and never will be. Only one man lived a perfect and sinless life. And that was Jesus. God is the only one who can judge and who will judge. So, we need to let God deal with everyone, and we need to stop being concerned about how other people live their life or what sexual preference they have.

6th, In my life, almost 24 years of living now, I have seen more Hatred, more bigotry, more ignorance and more stupidity from CHRISTIANS than I have seen from anyone else. There's just so much hatred from Christians towards ANYONE who is different than them in any way, shape, or form. It's just unbelievable. Christianity is supposed to be the religion in which everyone is loved and everyone is accepted for who they are, and yet all we do is condemn people or push them away or judge them just because they are different.

7th, Some advice( If you are against Homosexuals), the next time you meet a Gay person, whether it is on a message board or real life, Don't post or give Scripture about Homosexuality being wrong. You make your self look childish and immature. And therefore you can't be taken seriously. As I said in my first point, MAN/MEN wrote the Bible, NOT GOD. So, if you are posting the Anti-Homosexual scripture from the Bible, you are posting the opinion of a Man, not the opinion of God.

And, just so everyone knows. I am not Gay.
But I am tired of all the Hatred from Christians towards Homosexuals.

That is all for now. Take care and have a nice day

sure i will respond, since this is clearly directed at me. (i will respond to all your points)

Point one-
While i believe completely in a living and active God, who can reveal himself to anyone.
I think your take on this is not right. Based on this statement, you believe that somehow in and of yourself you can know all truth, not because of the reasons that the bible say, but because... well why is it again?

Point 2:
I do not believe this at all, i believe it is completely unnatural. there is the basic fact that procreation completely stops in homosexual relationships. God did not make people wrong... that is not true. I would say what the bible says, but somehow that becomes "hate speak" when i do. so why waste my time.

Point 3
All of scripture is imperative, and true study is important. I believe that with proper study we can find the truth about everything in scripture. Many preachers have twisted scripture and made thier own agendas somehow show thru in scripture, but the reality is, they will suffer for doing so when they stand before the Lord. The long hair thing, can be studied and proper conclusions can be found quite easily.

point 4
You honestly believe it is bad to "pray" for someone else? True prayer cannot be based in sin, so prayers that are selfish, hateful etc are not something that are real, and will not be answered. But true prayer, in the Spirit of the Sovereign Lord is Imperative, and it is completely love filled, praying that God would reveal Himself to people in a greater way, that people would meet and fall in love with Jesus Christ is not a waste of time.

honestly this point is competely based in misunderstanding, there is nothing wrong with or nothing evil about praying for God to bless someone.


Point 5
I agree, that man is unable to judge others... since no one is righteous no not one (thats scripture btw) but since I believe earnestly that God was behind scripture, and is the author of it, and that those rules (even ones I disagree with, and have had to struggle thru things with these scriptures) are from God.

Point 6
Well i am near 40 now, and i have seen tons of horrible things from many people, but i can honestly say that the most violent killers i have ever met (and i have met more than one) were not Christians. I can honestly say that the Satanists I have met, had a clear cut and hatred filled agenda toward others, particularly christians. I have never met a true christian that hated someone.
even though i say scripture is clear, I went out of my way to explain how i love my family members involved with this lifestyle. I also have been known to have a drink with gay people from work etc, I am not homophobic, nor am i hater, but i believe what the bible says anyway.
i love people regardless of where they are at.


Point 7
Well I understand how you feel, but i can attest that i have had many good solid friendships with gay people, and i have been clear on what I believe, never once pulling a punch. And these people have held onto our friendship, they called me when they needed help etc.
so, regardless of what you think, i have maintained a true balance.
well i have messed up, but then again, i am sure you have too.
anyway, i disagree with your underlined statement completely.. but then again, we already know that dont we.

and just so you know
I have not espoused any hatred.
you simply have misread, or read thru your past experiances.
whatever, I have not hated anyone.

please dont accuse me of hating when i havnt, that is just wrong.

That's pretty serious.

I must say, I'm getting a bit sick of this all...

Not TWO days ago, I bade you guys NOT to discuss this topic, since it was extremely sensitive to me, yet you hear not... So I guess I'm not taken seriously?

Where I hoped to find friends, Jesusmetal has become a hostile place to me... I hate to say that once again among brothers I've felt all but love... Once more my prejudices towards Christians have been confirmed...

For Christ's sake, we're all fucking Christians!!! How hard can it be, to treat each other with love and respect, to respect each other's visions and subsequently each other's way of life?
I am a Christian, I told you... I've been into these matters for many a year! I have had my troubles and my fights with it...
My faith in God and the Bible is well based, my faith in Christ my only hope...
Why fucking harm each other on the trivial matters???
I've given the subject many a thought, talked and read about it much... There is not one undeniable truth... There are many ways of interpretation, as the whole bible is open for many many interpretations... (Ever wondered why there are hundreds of different churches????)

I ask once more of you!!! Be calm, let's get along together: I as an active homosexual, you as your very selves...

For crying out loud! Could we have got further from Christ's example then we've done for the past few days???

I agree with Lancy and Dis.
For this discussion is finished, draw your own conclusions.

Punt.

Jesus didn't have long hair.
Where didya get that?



You made some good points; especially about the hatred we seem to produce.

Nice one lancey.

Hey guys...what's wrong with talking about it? We don't have to discuss it, but its more bad when we are quiate about this things. It's nothing wrong with that people write here what they think. Of course they can be mislead, but it's to us to tell them the truth with love given us by the Lord! and i prefer not to stop, only if it's going to be without fruits.

I gonna give soon the answer.

Blessings,
ServantOfTheLight.

ServantOfTheLight wrote:

Hey guys...what's wrong with talking about it? We don't have to discuss it, but its more bad when we are quiate about this things. It's nothing wrong with that people write here what they think. Of course they can be mislead, but it's to us to tell them the truth with love given us by the Lord! and i prefer not to stop, only if it's going to be without fruits.

I gonna give soon the answer.

Blessings,
ServantOfTheLight.

It is bad, because people get angry, get hurt...
There are many places you can give THE answer, but again I ask you: don't do it here...

Discipvlvs wrote:

It is bad, because people get angry, get hurt...
There are many places you can give THE answer, but again I ask you: don't do it here...

You've got my word bro.
:zipped:

I understand. But remember that its about eternal life. Hurt we all gonna be! We all gonna be hated, killed etc etc. You can go under the wings of the Almighty and let the pain by Him, but please He don't ask for offers.
He don't ask that we handle for ourselves but for others. We are for serve the other man, not ourselves.
And the eternal life and forgiveness someone can get..isnt that more important then the feelings we have? this feelings are not for eternal, they will fade away. But when we stop talking then comes an offer only for the feelings you have. An soul offer? I know it's sounds harsh, it is harsh, but Jesus is always for you to take your pain.

The Lord say also to us, that we not gonna only share in His joy, but in His pain too.
Like He did to save us all!!! Brother, remember, we have to learn to be like Him. So we gonna be hurted and pained by everyone, like He was. *hug*.
But at the end, when this life is over, we get for what we have lead for. We go to heaven and will rise!
No pain anymore, no suffering, no crying. But until then we have to keep on looking up.
Keep the promise of God for your eyes and trust on Him.

"Long is the road to Mount Zion, strong are the arms that carry me there. Near is the road to Mount Zion, so let we walk with nothing to fear"

Once we let our feelings take control over our lives and thoughts,
we will get Hurt and possibly Angry too. But once we get Divine Love and Truth from within from God and not from ourselves nor from what others think, we will not get hurt by hearing nor discussing different opinions than the ones we have. When we still get hurt, it means that there is still something undone in us that needs to get Healed and Formed by God.

-With Jesus`s Love-

i never attacked nor hated anyone,
and i dont see how disagreeing with someone is so wrong.
i also dont see how I hated anyone.

I think its absolutley crazy that people would react this way to conversation.

btw, I only got involved with the other thread when people started talking bad about the word of God, I never said anything anti homosexual.
I only stated anything "negative" in this thread where i felt personally attacked because I defended the word of God in the other thread.

Jesus Freak, you're right...

Sebat..don't forget where you are from. We are all crazy and all sinners and we stay making mistakes.

Goodness, this sorta discussions makes that i hardly visit any forums anymore

I haven't seen any hatred either.. not in this thread, not in the other..
I do not understand why we are not able to talk about this..
Lance, Sneeuwziel, Niels think they're right.. and others with another opinion think they're right too yet they're not allowed to say what they believe in.. which I find pretty lame.. and don't tell me they are because they aren't..
It might be this has been discussed a thousand times already.. but everything has been discussed a thousand times already.. so why don't we all just stop discussing because it might hurt someone who does not agree!
Seriously, from the whole discussion, this annoys me the most.

I havnt forgotten where i come from, I have made no claims to be better than anyone, if you read that, you are reading it into the text, as its not there. I have actually claimed to have struggles with some of what scripture says my own self, so to think i am doing something like that just isnt true.

i cannot help where others have been hurt before, i wasnt a part of those conversations, I have never said that I couldnt interact with people who i disagreed with, nor have I said that they are worthless or unimportant. To insinuate that i have is nothing more than a knee jerk reaction, i dont hate anyone here, i pray that they know the fullness of Christ, just as I beg God that He would allow me the same thing.
i am broken and in need of a saviour, and make no claims at anything else.

when i sin, its sin, i sin many times, and its hard to deal with having to repent and work on things when I feel that its part of my nature...
i struggle with many things
but God is still right, and i am still just a human. so i try to submit, and pray wehre i fail God would help me overcome.

but i will not lie about things, nor will i just accept being told to shut up, or get out.

My original Post was not directed at any one individual person. It was directed to EVERYONE, including myself.

And Carly, where do you get the idea that the others are not allowed to say what they believe? No one ever said that.

Everyone here can voice their opinion and what they believe.

HOWEVER, when it becomes offensive and hurtful to someone, it needs to stop.

Discipvlvs/// getting "hurt" is a choice.

Why not choose not to be hurt?



That being said... certain people will always view themselves as everyone's victim. That will never change, no matter how polite you try to be..

He did not choose to be Gay, he was born that way.

Therefore he is not choosing to be hurt.

Lancey wrote:

He did not choose to be Gay, he was born that way.

Therefore he is not choosing to be hurt.

So your saying gay people have no free will because they were born gay? ?

It has never been proven you can be born Gay. You would believe what science says but not what the bible does? They also tell you that God isn't real, the world is billions of years old and we are here because of evolution. Saying someone is "born gay" sounds like just another way to justify their lifestyle. To me trying to justify homosexuality is like trying to justify rape or murder since all sin is equal in Gods eyes. I don't hate homosexuals, I just believe that homosexuality is a sin, it's not any worse than sins I commit each and every day. We are supposed to strive for perfection but the worldly pleasures of men lead us astray of our goal. I will not judge people for being gay I just do not and will not agree with it being an acceptable lifestyle. If you want to be gay than so be it, I cannot change your mind, just remember that you should be very careful of what you believe because you will be brought before God and your life on Earth will be judged by him.

Ash wrote:

That being said... certain people will always view themselves as everyone's victim. That will never change, no matter how polite you try to be..

God can change us, as long as we are willing for it
We can become totally Free. But also we have to Want that.
God can`t force us to get changed if we don`t want to.